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Emails detail Saints' aid to archdiocese in scandal

NEW ORLEANS -- As New Orleans church leaders braced for the fallout from publishing a list of predatory Catholic priests, they turned to an unlikely ally: the front office of the city's NFL franchise.
What followed was a monthslong, crisis-communications blitz orchestrated by the New Orleans Saints' president and other top team officials, according to hundreds of internal emails obtained by The Associated Press.
The records, which the Saints and church had long sought to keep out of public view, reveal team executives played a more extensive role than previously known in a public relations campaign to mitigate fallout from the clergy sexual abuse crisis. The emails shed new light on the Saints' foray into a fraught topic far from the gridiron, a behind-the-scenes effort driven by the team's devoutly Catholic owner who has long enjoyed a close relationship with the city's embattled archbishop.
They also showed how various New Orleans institutions -- from a sitting federal judge to the local media -- rallied around church leaders at a critical moment.
Among the key moments, as revealed in the Saints' own emails:
Saints executives were so involved in the church's damage control that a team spokesman briefed his boss on a 2018 call with the city's top prosecutor hours before the church released a list of clergymen accused of abuse. The call, the spokesman said, "allowed us to take certain people off" the list.
Team officials were among the first people outside the church to view that list, a carefully curated, yet undercounted roster of suspected pedophiles. The disclosure of those names invited civil claims against the church and drew attention from federal and state law enforcement.
The team's president, Dennis Lauscha, drafted more than a dozen questions that Archbishop Gregory Aymond should be prepared to answer as he faced reporters.
The Saints' senior vice president of communications, Greg Bensel, provided fly-on-the-wall updates to Lauscha about local media interviews, suggesting church and team leaders were all on the same team. "He is doing well," Bensel wrote as the archbishop told reporters the church was committed to addressing the crisis. "That is our message," Bensel added, "that we will not stop here today."
The emails obtained by AP sharply undercut assurances the Saints gave fans about the public relations guidance five years ago when they asserted they had provided only "minimal" assistance to the church. The team went to court to keep its internal emails secret.
"This is disgusting," said state Rep. Mandie Landry, D-New Orleans. "As a New Orleans resident, taxpayer and Catholic, it doesn't make any sense to me why the Saints would go to these lengths to protect grown men who raped children. All of them should have been just as horrified at the allegations."
The Saints told the AP last week that the partnership is a thing of the past. The emails cover a yearlong period ending in July 2019, when they were subpoenaed by attorneys for victims of a priest later charged with raping an 8-year-old boy.
In a lengthy statement, the team criticized the media for using "leaked emails for the purpose of misconstruing a well-intended effort."
"No member of the Saints organization condones or wants to cover up the abuse that occurred in the Archdiocese of New Orleans," the team said. "That abuse occurred is a terrible fact."
The team's response did little to quell the anger of survivors of clergy sexual abuse.
"We felt betrayed by the organization," said Kevin Bourgeois, a former Saints season-ticket holder who was abused by a priest in the 1980s. "It forces me to question what other secrets are being withheld. I'm angry, hurt and retraumatized again."
Emails reveal extent of help
After the AP first reported on the alliance in early 2020, Saints owner Gayle Benson denied that anyone "associated with our organizations made recommendations or had input" on the list of pedophile priests.
The Saints reiterated that denial in their statement Saturday, saying no Saints employees "had any responsibility for adding or removing any names from that list." The team said that no employees offered "any input, suggestions or opinions as to who should be included or omitted from" the list.
Leon Cannizzaro, the district attorney at the time, denied last week any role in shaping the credibly accused clergy list, echoing statements he made in 2020. He told the AP he "absolutely had no involvement in removing any names from any list." Cannizzaro said he did not know why the Saints' spokesman would have reported he had been on a call related to the list.
The emails, sent from Saints accounts, don't specify which clergymen were removed from the list or why. They raise fresh questions, however, about the Saints' role in a scandal that has taken on much larger legal and financial stakes since the team waded into it, potentially in violation of the NFL's policy against conduct "detrimental to the league."
A coalescing of New Orleans institutions
The outsized role of Saints executives could draw new attention from NFL commissioner Roger Goodell, who is scheduled to address reporters Monday as New Orleans prepares to host its 11th Super Bowl. Messages requesting comment were sent to the NFL.
Taken together, the emails portray a coalescing of several New Orleans institutions. U.S. District Court Judge Jay Zainey, who was copied by the Saints on the public relations efforts, cheered Bensel on from his personal email account, thanking the team's spokesman "for the wonderful advice." A newspaper editor similarly thanked Bensel for getting involved.
"You have hit all the points," Zainey, a fellow Catholic, wrote in another email to Bensel, praising a lengthy note the Saints spokesman sent to local newspaper editors. "By his example and leadership, Archbishop Aymond, our shepherd, will continue to lead our Church in the right direction -- helping us to learn and to rebuild from the mistakes of the past."
Zainey later struck down a Louisiana law, vigorously opposed by the church, that would have allowed victims to bring civil claims irrespective of how long ago the alleged sex abuse took place. He declined to comment.
A watershed moment for the Catholic Church
The list marked a watershed in heavily Catholic New Orleans -- a long-awaited mea culpa to parishioners intended to usher in healing and local accountability. It came at a time when church leaders were seeking to retain public trust -- and financial support -- as they reckoned with generations of abuse and mounting litigation that eventually drove the Archdiocese of New Orleans into bankruptcy.
That litigation, filed in 2020, involves more than 600 people who say they were abused by clergy. The case has produced a trove of still-secret church records said to document years of abuse claims and a pattern of church leaders transferring clergy without reporting their crimes to law enforcement.
While it has since expanded, the list of accused priests was missing a number of clergy when it was originally released, an earlier AP investigation found.
The AP identified 20 clergymen who had been accused in lawsuits or charged by law enforcement with child sexual abuse who were inexplicably omitted from the New Orleans list -- including two who were charged and convicted of crimes.
Still, the list has served as a road map for both the FBI and Louisiana State Police, which launched sweeping investigations into New Orleans church leaders' shielding of predatory priests.
Last spring, state police carried out a wide-ranging search warrant at the Archdiocese of New Orleans, seizing records that include communications with the Vatican.
Since the Saints began assisting the archdiocese, at least seven current and former members of the local clergy have been charged with crimes ranging from rape to possession of child pornography.
Public relations campaign
The extent of the abuse remained largely unknown in 2018, a year the Saints won nine consecutive games on the way to an NFC Championship Game appearance. As the church prepped for a media onslaught, Bensel carried out an aggressive public relations campaign in which he called in favors, prepared talking points and leaned on long-time media contacts to support the church through a "soon-to-be-messy" time.
Far from freelancing, Bensel had the Saints' backing and blessing through what he called a "Galileo moment," suggesting Aymond would be a trailblazer in releasing a credibly accused clergy list at a critical time for the church. In emails to editorial boards, he warned "casting a critical eye" on the archbishop "is neither beneficial nor right."
He urged the city's newspapers to "work with" the church, reminding them the Saints and New Orleans Pelicans -- the city's NBA team, also owned by Benson -- had been successful thanks, in part, to their support.
"We did this because we had buy-in from YOU," Bensel wrote to the editors of The Times-Picayune and New Orleans Advocate, "supporting our mission to be the best, to make New Orleans and everything within her bounds the best."
"We are sitting on that opportunity now with the Archdiocese of New Orleans," he added. "We need to tell the story of how this Archbishop is leading us out of this mess."
Close relationship between Saints and Catholic church
Benson and Aymond, the archbishop, have been confidants for years. It was the archbishop who introduced Benson to her late husband, Tom Benson, who died in 2018, leaving his widow in control of New Orleans' NFL and NBA franchises.
The Bensons' foundation has given tens of millions of dollars to the archdiocese and other Catholic causes. Along the way, Aymond has flown on the owner's private jet and become almost a part of the team, frequently celebrating pregame Masses.
When the clergy abuse allegations came to a head, Bensel worked his contacts in the local media to help shape the story. He had friendly email exchanges with a Times-Picayune columnist who praised the archbishop for releasing the clergy list. He also asked the newspaper's leadership to keep their communications "confidential, not for publication nor to share with others."
His emails revealed that The Advocate -- after Aymond privately complained to the publisher -- removed a notice from one online article that had called for clergy abuse victims to reach out.
Kevin Hall, president and publisher of Georges Media, which owns the newspaper, said the publication welcomes engagement from community leaders but that outreach "does not dilute our journalistic standards or keep us from pursuing the truth."
"No one gets preferential treatment in our coverage of the news," he said in a statement. "Over the past six years, we have consistently published in-depth stories highlighting the ongoing serious issues surrounding the archdiocese sex abuse crisis, as well as investigative reports on this matter by WWL-TV and by The Associated Press."
It was The Advocate's reporting that prompted Bensel to help the church, the emails show. He first offered to "chat crisis communications" with church leaders after the newspaper exposed a scandal involving a disgraced deacon, George Brignac, who remained a lay minister even after the archdiocese settled claims he had raped an 8-year-old altar boy.
"We have been through enough at Saints to be a help or sounding board," Bensel wrote, "but I don't want to overstep!"
Trojans fall to No. 7 in women's poll; UCLA still 1

Southern Cal's second loss of the season dropped the Trojans to seventh in The Associated Press Top 25 women's basketball poll Monday.
The previously No. 4 Trojans were shocked Sunday by the host Iowa Hawkeyes 76-69 on the day that Caitlin Clark's jersey was retired. USC's only other loss came at home to Notre Dame in November.
UCLA, South Carolina and Notre Dame remained the top three teams in the rankings. The Bruins received all 32 first-place votes in the poll from a national media panel, picking up the one that the Gamecocks garnered last week.
The Bruins beat Minnesota 79-53 in their lone game last week to remain as the only unbeaten team in the country. South Carolina knocked off then-No. 18 Tennessee and Auburn. The victory over the Tigers on Sunday came on a day when the Gamecocks retired the jersey of A'ja Wilson.
Texas, UConn and LSU all moved up a spot to follow the Fighting Irish. Ohio State, TCU and Duke remained eight through 10.
No. 11 Kentucky has its best ranking in four years behind first-year coach Kenny Brooks. The Wildcats (19-2), who last were ranked this high in 2021, have their bye week before hitting a tough stretch of the SEC schedule to close the regular season. They still have games left against South Carolina, LSU, Texas and Tennessee.
The Wildcats' only losses this season came against North Carolina on Dec. 5 and Texas A&M on Jan. 23.
CONFERENCE BREAKDOWN
With no new teams in the poll this week, the Southeastern Conference remained atop the standings with eight teams ranked. The ACC had seven. The Big Ten was next with five. The Big 12 has four ranked teams and the Big East one.
GAMES OF THE WEEK
No. 9 TCU at No. 12 Kansas State (Wednesday): First place in the Big 12 will be on the line when the Horned Frogs visit the Wildcats. Both teams are 9-1 in conference play.
No. 5 UConn at No. 19 Tennessee (Thursday): These two will renew their rivalry with the Huskies visiting the Lady Vols. It will be the first time that UConn sees Tennessee coach Kim Caldwell's pressing style.
No. 2 South Carolina at No. 4 Texas (Sunday): The Longhorns will try to avenge a 17-point loss in Columbia last month. South Carolina has a one-game lead in the standings on the Longhorns, Kentucky and LSU.
Reigning DPOY Garrett requests Browns trade him

Star defensive end Myles Garrett, the NFL's reigning Defensive Player of the Year, has requested a trade from the Cleveland Browns, he announced in a statement Monday.
"While I've loved calling this city my home, my desire to win and compete on the biggest stages won't allow me to be complacent. The goal was never to go from Cleveland to Canton, it has always been to compete for and win a Super Bowl," Garrett said in the statement.
Myles Garrett has requested a trade.
His statement: pic.twitter.com/yx5Q9Exa0V
Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter) February 3, 2025
Speculation over Garrett's future in Cleveland had ramped up in recent months after he made comments saying he wanted to know the team's offseason plans following a 3-14 season before further committing to the organization. The 29-year-old has two years remaining on the record-breaking five-year, $125 million extension he signed in 2020 but no more guaranteed salary.
In late December, Garrett said he did not want to go through another rebuild in Cleveland, which holds the second overall pick in the 2025 NFL draft. At the conclusion of the sixth losing season he has experienced since entering the league in 2017, Garrett said the 2024 season was more disappointing than Cleveland's 0-16 season in his rookie season. When asked if an extension this offseason would hinge on his talks with Cleveland's higher-ups, Garrett said, "I mean, there'll be something coming."
However, in an episode of HBO's "Hard Knocks" that aired Jan. 14, Garrett said he had talked to Browns general manager Andrew Berry about how they were going to get the most out of the talent they have.
"We're closer than some may think we are," Garrett said.
Twice in the past month, Berry said he does not intend to trade Garrett or entertain offers for the six-time Pro Bowler and four-time All-Pro selection. At his end-of-season news conference, Berry said, "My anticipation, expectation is that he'll have a direct ticket from Cleveland to Canton at the end of his years and expect him to be here and retire a Brown, quite frankly."
Berry told reporters at the Senior Bowl last week that he would not trade Garrett, even for a hypothetical offer of two first-round picks.
The Browns' stance on trading Garrett has not changed amid his trade request, a source told ESPN's Jeremy Fowler on Monday.
This past season, Garrett became the first player since sacks became an official stat in 1982 to record 100 career sacks before his 29th birthday. Garrett was named the AP Defensive Player of the Year for the 2023 season and his 14 sacks in 2024 ranked second in the NFL.
The Browns originally selected Garrett with the first overall pick in the 2017 draft. Since entering the league, Garrett's 102.5 sacks trail only the Pittsburgh Steelers' T.J. Watt (108).
Knicks' Anunoby to miss game with sprained foot

NEW YORK -- OG Anunoby will miss the New York Knicks' game against Houston on Monday night, sitting out for the first time this season because of a sprained right foot.
The Knicks originally listed the starting forward as questionable to play when they submitted their injury report Sunday. He was then downgraded to out on Monday.
Anunoby suffered the injury on a transition play during Saturday's loss to the Los Angeles Lakers. He caught the ball at the 3-point line then appeared to plant his right foot awkwardly, causing him to stumble over without anyone making contact with him.
He went to one knee while holding his lower right leg, eventually got up and walked to the locker room area.
Coach Tom Thibodeau said after the game that X-rays on Anunoby's foot were negative.
Anunoby, who agreed to a five-year, $212 million deal to stay with New York during the offseason, has started all 49 games for the Knicks, averaging 16.4 points.
Since the start of the 2023-24 campaign, New York has gone 52-19 with him in the lineup and 30-29 without him.
Following Monday's game, the Knicks next visit Toronto on Tuesday night.
ESPN's Chris Herring and The Associated Press contributed to this report.
Sources: Butler tells Warriors he won't sign there

Amid trade talks, Miami Heat star Jimmy Butler has communicated to the Golden State Warriors that he is not interested in signing a contract extension there, sources told ESPN.
Butler's position dims the chances of a deal coming together, but the situation remains fluid, sources said. The Warriors have been in conversations with multiple teams about improving their roster leading up to Thursday's NBA trade deadline.
Butler has a $52 million player option for next season, but his representation has indicated repeatedly that he prefers to bypass it and become a free agent. Butler's focus remains on getting traded to the Phoenix Suns, where he has shown an interest in signing a multiyear deal, sources said.
Teams interested in Butler have also mulled the chances they could trade for Butler without a long-term commitment with the belief that the six-time All-Star would possibly exercise his player option and not become a free agent, sources said.
Last month, the Memphis Grizzlies had preliminary talks with the Heat about Butler, sources said, but Butler also made it known he would not commit long-term in Memphis. Those discussions subsequently did not progress.
Butler is currently serving a five-game suspension -- his third suspension of the season -- after leaving practice last week.
Luka's dad rips Mavs: He 'doesn't deserve this'

Luka Doncic avoided mentioning the Mavericks organization in his farewell message Sunday, instead thanking fans and the Dallas community after being traded to the Lakers.
Doncic's father, however, did not hold back when discussing the Mavericks and their handling of the blockbuster deal.
In an interview Sunday with Slovenian media network Arena Sport 1, Sasa Doncic accused the Mavericks of "hypocrisy" and criticized the "secrecy" with which they orchestrated the three-team trade that sent Luka to the Lakers and Anthony Davis to Dallas.
"I understand there comes a moment when you disagree with a certain philosophy," Sasa Doncic said, as translated by Arena Sport. "You don't like this or that player, all good -- I get it.
"But I think that exactly this secrecy, or should I say from some individuals, maybe even hypocrisy, this hurts me personally. Because I think that Luka absolutely doesn't deserve this."
Mavericks general manager Nico Harrison cited Davis' superior defense as a reason for the trade, saying "defense wins championships," while acknowledging that Doncic's upcoming contractual situation also was a concern.
But sources told ESPN's Tim MacMahon that constant concerns about Doncic's conditioning were a major factor in the Mavericks' decision to approach the Lakers about a trade. Doncic has played in only 22 games this season because of injuries, primarily a left calf strain that has sidelined him since Christmas Day.
Sources told MacMahon that there was extreme frustration throughout the organization about Doncic's lackadaisical approach to diet and conditioning, which Mavs decision-makers believed negatively impacted his durability.
Sasa Doncic pointed to the Mavs' 2023-24 season, when his son played in 70 regular-season contests and averaged 37.5 minutes per game, before playing in an additional 22 postseason games and averaging 40.9 minutes per game during Dallas' run to the NBA Finals.
"[Luka's conditioning] wasn't even a problem last year since, I am saying again, one individual said he's not fit enough," Sasa said. "That he played, I don't know, 100 games -- practically 40 minutes with two or three players constantly on him.
"That he was beaten, and you say such things about him -- I feel that this is very unfair from certain individuals. You traded him, stand by your actions but don't look for excuses or alibis, that's it."
Doncic said earlier Sunday in a message to the Dallas community that he "wanted so badly to bring you a championship" and that he thought he'd spend his career with the Mavericks.
"For a young kid from Slovenia coming to the U.S. for the first time, you made North Texas feel like home," Doncic wrote in the message posted to social media. "In good times and bad, from injuries to the NBA Finals, your support never changed. Thank you not only for sharing my joy in our best moments, but also for lifting me up when I needed it most."
Doncic was enormously popular in Dallas -- and everywhere else. His No. 77 Mavericks jersey ranked eighth among bestsellers through NBAStore.com over the first half of the season. On Sunday night, some Doncic items remained for sale on the Mavs' shopping site.
Mavericks fans gathered Sunday afternoon outside American Airlines Center in Dallas to protest the trade. The demonstrations included a mock funeral featuring multiple fans dressed as undertakers and carrying a coffin, one fan holding a sign that read "Worst Trade in NBA History" and another fan leaving a sign that read "RIP Mavs."
Security workers were seen attempting to clean an area that had been vandalized by fans who left a profane message directed at Harrison.
Sasa Doncic echoed his son's sentiments, saying Luka "respected Dallas a lot" and mentioned his charity work in the city.
"At least as I know, [Luka] sacrificed himself enormously -- and even all the stories now that someone is releasing that he wants to apologize for the things that they're doing," Sasa said. "I feel like this is very unfair from some individuals because I know that Luka respected Dallas a lot. He respected the whole city, helped children."
The Associated Press contributed to this report.

Plumtree will act as cover for Wainwright and Taulupe Faletau, who is the other specialist number eight in the initial squad but missed the game at Stade de France because of a knee injury.
Wainwright was replaced by Leicester flanker Tommy Reffell during Friday's match, with James Botham switching to number eight during the game.
Plumtree was left out of the squad initially after featuring in the autumn series where he packed down at number eight against South Africa.
No centre cover has been drafted in with Wales still able to call on the likes of Nick Tompkins, Ben Thomas, Eddie James and Joe Roberts.
This means there remains no call-up for Gloucester centre Max Llewellyn or his club team-mate fly-half Gareth Anscombe.
Wales face Italy on Saturday with Gatland's side bidding to avoid a 14th consecutive international defeat.
Sources: Spurs end Disasi interest; Villa in talks

Aston Villa are the frontrunners to sign Axel Disasi after Tottenham ended their interest in the Chelsea defender, sources have told ESPN.
Spurs had agreed a loan deal with Chelsea -- one source told ESPN that deal included a 5 million fee ($6.1m) and no option for a permanent move -- but the 26-year-old stated his preference to join Villa.
As of Monday morning, Villa had not reached an agreement with Chelsea but given the centre-back's stance, Tottenham pulled out of the running as they assessed whether to pursue an alternative option at this late stage.
Talks are expected to continue between Villa and Chelsea for Disasi. The club ideally want a substantial loan fee or a deal containing an obligation for a permanent move this summer.
Tottenham have already added one defender after Kevin Danso agreed an initial six-month loan from Lens before an obligation to complete a permanent move for 25m a five-year contract is triggered this summer.
Villa have already signed Marcus Rashford on loan from Manchester United, winger Donyell Malen from Borussia Dortmund for 25m and full-back Andrés García from Levante for 7m.

Cristiano Ronaldo has said Real Madrid must "look after" Kylian Mbappé and advised that the star forward must "do things his way" as he looks to follow in Ronaldo's footsteps as a legend at the Bernabéu.
Mbappé has already scored 22 goals in all competitions in his debut campaign at Madrid, having faced criticism for his performances earlier in the season.
Ronaldo -- who is Madrid's all-time leading goalscorer with 451 goals -- was Mbappé's childhood hero, and famously posed for a photo with Mbappé when the youngster first went on trial at the club as a teenager.
"Look after the lad," Ronaldo urged, in an extract from an interview with Spanish TV show El Chiringuito, due to be broadcast in full on Monday. "The fans need to look after him. He's very good. The club have to help to protect him, I have no doubt he'll bring a lot of joy to Madrid fans.
"I love [Mbappé], not just because of his story as a kid, how he loved Cristiano, I was his idol," Ronaldo said. "I think he's a top player."
Ronaldo revealed he now tunes in to watch Real Madrid's games because his son, Mateo, is a fan of Mbappé.
The five-time Ballon d'Or winner said he feels Mbappé still needs some help in adjusting to his role in the Real Madrid team.
"It's complicated, because he doesn't know how to play as a forward in my opinion -- or rather, it's not that he doesn't know, but it isn't his position," Ronaldo said. "If I was at Madrid, I'd show him how to play as a number nine.
"I wasn't a forward. I got used to it, but I was a winger. People forget that. I was a forward, but not a typical forward. I think [Mbappé] shouldn't be a typical forward, he should do things his way."
Mbappé has already won two trophies with Madrid, the UEFA Super Cup and the FIFA Intercontinental Cup, and scored as Madrid were humbled 5-2 by Barcelona in the Spanish Supercopa last month.
Madrid now face a testing few weeks, playing Leganés in a Copa del Rey quarterfinal before a Madrid Derby with Atlético Madrid on Saturday and then facing Manchester City in their Champions League knockout stage playoff.
Mehidy and Nasum help Khulna Tigers progress to Qualifer 2; Rangpur Riders eliminated

Khulna Tigers 89 for 1 (Naim 48*) beat Rangpur Riders 85 all out (Javed 32, Mehidy 3-10. Nasum 3-16) by nine wickets
Khulna Tigers roared to a nine-wicket win against the star-studded Rangpur Riders in the BPL's eliminator match. The victory puts them in the second qualifier to face the losing side from the first qualifier later on Monday. Khulna's spinners helped bowl out Rangpur for 85, before needing just 10.1 overs to knock off the target.
Rangpur's big guns misfire
The image of Andre Russell, James Vince and Tim David walking through the Dhaka airport on Monday morning was a sight for sore eyes in the Rangpur camp. They had lost their way in the latter part of the BPL, falling to four defeats after winning eight in a row. Rangpur needed this boost from their big guns coming in after their stints in the ILT20. But it didn't quite pan out the way they would have hoped.
Vince got into a mix-up with his opening partner Soumya Sarkar off the second ball of the match, resulting in the latter being run out for a duck. Vince himself got caught and bowled in the second over. David was the next one to go, falling to a catch in the deep for 7 off 9 balls. Mohammad Nawaz clean bowled a slogging Russell in the 12th over, the last nail in the coffin for Rangpur.
Khulna spinners shut down the locals too
Having handled the recently arrived big-hitters very well, Khulna were also relentless against the Rangpur locals. After Soumya and Vince departed, Nasum removed Mahedi Hasan before Saif Hassan slogged Mehidy to no avail. When Mehidy removed his opposite number Nurul Hasan for 23, Rangpur were reduced to 52 for 9. It was only thanks to Aakif Javed's intervention from No. 10 that they scored a few more runs.
Khulna glide in smooth chase
Mehidy's wicket in the first over was the only blip in Khulna's reply. Mohammad Naim continued his great form of the last two months, striking three fours and four sixes in his 33-ball 48 not out. It took him top of the BPL run-getters' chart. Alex Ross added 29 runs off 27 balls, hitting four boundaries.